'We exceeded expectations after losing Smith and Kallis'
Hashim Amla explains his evolution as an international cricketer, the challenges of leading a side, how he deals with doubt and answers whether he can actually get angry
Interview by Mohammad Isam
29-Jul-2015
Hashim Amla is done with his batting net on the eve of the second Test against Bangladesh. After a little rest, he sits in the corner chair of the dining area at Shere Bangla stadium in Mirpur and slowly has a mango. He is interrupted by two journalists, but is happy to give them time for an interview. He comes across as an affable man, ever ready to break into a smile as something amused him. He is also a careful man, who took time with his answers, measuring his words like he would measure the ball for a square drive.
So as the mango lies forgotten, Amla explains the challenges of captaincy, his evolution as an international cricketer, how he deals with doubt and answers whether he can actually get angry
Captaincy came to you a year ago and you have made a good start. How do you see your development?
I have been playing international cricket for almost 11-12 years. The first ten years have been under Graeme Smith. He is probably the best captain that I have played under. He was not the only captain that I played under. There were guys like Dale Benkenstein, who was captain in my domestic team [Dolphins] and a few other guys along the way. I think, from a personal point of view, it is only natural for me to learn from everybody with whom I was involved. Last year the captaincy came up, and I was fortunate to be captain of this team.
During the age-groups, for some reason, I found myself in the captaincy position. I think that type of upbringing almost forces captaincy never to leave
Captaincy itself is not something that you can finish, like you read a book and finish and you know everything. I am sure if you asked great captains of the world they will tell you that you will keep learning as your career progresses. It has only been one year, seven Test matches. For me it has also been a learning experience. I have inherited a very well-polished Test team that has been doing well. Last year we managed to put in some good performances, notably Sri Lanka which is a difficult place to play. But we did exceptionally well. I think we exceeded expectations especially after losing Smith and Jacques Kallis.
On this tour you are seeing, for the first time, the real effects of having lost three big guys - Smith, Kallis and Alviro Peterson. Now when you look at our Test team you see a lot of new faces. Many people around the world will probably put the TV on and say Simon Harmer, who is that? Dean Elgar, he's played a couple of games; Stiaan van Zyl, who's that? Temba Bavuma, who's that? It is a very, very new team and in Test cricket when you have new faces, it is actually a big change. It is not as big a change in one-day cricket and T20s.
Since we had such a settled Test team over the last eight-nine years, we are now in a bit of a transition phase. The challenge for us is to try and maintain winning performances and nurture these guys so that when we leave, they can keep going.
You have led in age-group cricket and for Natal at the age of 21. Did it come naturally to you?
During the age-groups, for some reason, I found myself in the captaincy position. I think that type of upbringing almost forces captaincy never to leave. Even when Graeme was captain, I found myself giving him ideas many times. It is just what happens: the mind never stops thinking on the field. Before taking the captaincy last year, I resisted it. I was vice-captain for the ODI team. Graeme's retirement was a surprising one, most of us didn't expect it. And something in me said why not? This may be a good time to explore this avenue of my career.
It certainly makes the game very exciting; lot more to think about and few issues to deal with, which at this stage of my career [I can handle] having [had] the experience of a batsman for 10 years. If there's any value I would like to add as a captain, I would like to add it.
I certainly wouldn't like to leave South Africa cricket with a feeling in my heart that I have not given all that I have to offer. And I don't know what I have to offer. As the years progress probably, it will become clearer to me and the team and hopefully we have a successful tenure from now on until I finish.
You refused captaincy in the New Zealand series. What was the thinking behind that?
I was vice-captain. I just felt like I didn't want anything to do with captaincy. There were moments when, I remember, AB [de Villiers] who was captain didn't play because he was banned or he was injured. I felt at that stage that 'No, I didn't want to take captaincy.' Then it was a real thing. If AB gets banned again, you want somebody to take over, who is willing to take over. At that stage I wasn't willing to be the captain. Now things have changed.
How much has your batting evolved since the start of you career?
International cricket is a tough environment. I was 21-years-old when I started playing international cricket. Even now, I can't imagine what I was thinking back then. It was 11 years ago. There's no doubt that the longer you play international cricket, and if you have an open mind and a good support structure, it makes the transition from domestic cricket easier. I felt at that stage that the most difficult adjustment was not the cricket. It was understanding how things worked outside the cricket and how you fit in to a different team environment.
Once I started working that out, my cricket also started to improve. As a batsman you will always learn when you are at the highest level. Your cricket will naturally improve because you are playing with guys who are wonderful cricketers like Kallis and you are playing against great cricketers like Tendulkar, Dravid and Ponting. Naturally you will improve.
Batting has evolved because it is just a natural thing that happens in international cricket.
You are one of the best at No. 3 for South Africa, and in history too. You've converted a lot of your fifties into hundreds. How does that work?
[Laughs] Batting is about just trying to stay at the crease and scoring runs. It is really such a simple thing. To implement it is the difficult part. You need a lot of things to go your way in a sense, that opportunities will fall on your lap and they won't fall on somebody else's lap. Those sort of things don't bother me too much.
What I can have some element of influence on is how I train and the mental energy I put into my batting. That's what I concentrate on. Everything proceeds from there. I am grateful I have managed to get some runs in international cricket.
Certainly at the age of 16 when I played my first first-class game, I never imagined that I will play for South Africa for 11 years. So I just try and conduct myself and my cricket in such a way that it gives me the best chance to succeed.
But from the outside it looks like when you cross 50, you are certain to score a 100. What is the secret?
It gets easier, as you get more comfortable. Certainly, the more you do something, it gets more comfortable. Most cricketers have breakthrough knocks or something that happens that turns a switch in their head. I had, maybe, two. I think the first was when I got back into the team after being dropped. So this was my fourth Test match and I managed to get a hundred against New Zealand in Cape Town. It managed to sustain me in international cricket for a couple of Tests.
I went through a tougher time after that. I felt I was in the verge of getting dropped again. Then thankfully New Zealand were touring us again (laughs), and I managed to get another hundred. Two hundreds in succession and from that moment, it snowballed. You have to have a lot of belief that you can play at this level. And like I said, understanding how to deal with success and failure as well.
I felt at that stage that the most difficult adjustment was not the cricket. It was understanding how things worked outside the cricket and how you fit in to a different team environment. Once I started working that out, my cricket also started to improveHashim Amla on the lessons he learned early on in his career
You have so many records in ODIs, you are the only South African to score a triple-century and you have also been Wisden's cricketer of the year. Which one gives you more pleasure?
Which ones give me most pleasure? I think those that are Test-related give me a lot more satisfaction. Growing up, playing Test cricket was the dream almost. A real ambition. So I think being involved with a winning Test team for the last 5-6 years, is extremely satisfying. We have had big tours to England and Australia in 2012 and 2008. Not many teams can say that they have done what the South African team has done. So up until now those team achievements, I would consider as the highlights.
You have surpassed Sir Viv Richards in ODI milestones. How do you feel about that?
Sir Viv will always be, to anybody who has watched him even remotely, the master blaster. I don't think anybody can come close to him. I am quite happy to forfeit all my records and he can just keep his name on the top because that is what he deserves. One-day cricket has been wonderful. I was very fortunate I have played one-day cricket after playing quite a few Test matches. It helps having that international experience. When you play one-day cricket, you are a lot more settled in a team and in your thinking. One-day cricket is really enjoyable.
There was once when people had doubts over your ability to bat in ODIs. But did you think you could break so many records in ODIs?
One of the things I was talking about in understanding international cricket, is that people will always doubt you. In South Africa, there's a good chance people will doubt you even more. So when it comes to people having doubts about my one-day potential, you will never know until you play. I think growing up you can understand that it is not about people. It is about you and the cricket ball and whether you can sideline various issues, other people's opinions and apply yourself as best as possible to be successful. That's what I have tried.
Does Hashim Amla get angry?
[Laughs] Of course you get angry. You get disappointed, sad, upset. Anger is a harsh word. I think everybody gets at some stage.
I don't get angry at players. There's no need to get angry at them. You have 15 guys in the team who I have no doubt want this team to win and want themselves to do well more than anything else. I find it absurd to get angry at anyone who I know is giving their best. You will get disappointed at losing and not performing, but everybody is trying their best.
You had your ODI debut against Bangladesh. How do you see their evolution?
Certainly Bangladesh has improved over the years that I have played against them. It shows in their results, especially at home. Their challenge will be, and I am sure they will acknowledge it, results away from home. But the fact that they are winning at home is a great improvement for them.
They have players in the Bangladesh ODI team who have a lot more experience than myself and the guys in our own team. If you look at the matches played, there are way more. As was my first point, the more you play international cricket it is only natural to improve and that's what is happening. Now you see some of the players are maturing and understanding the game. I guess that's why you are seeing them winning at home.
Mohammad Isam is ESPNcricinfo's Bangladesh correspondent. @isam84